Argentina: Making Mistakes, Friendship and Tackling Loneliness

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Episode 5: In this episode, I am joined by the amazing Tiana (@tiana_charae) who is VP Communities at Queen Mary Students Union. We discuss her time abroad in Argentina and touch on working in South America, cultural differences, travel, making mistakes and building from them as well as loneliness and mental health.

Sagal

Hi all. Thank you for joining me for another episode of memnoire, a podcast dedicated to the experiences of black people go abroad. So I took a little hiatus due to exams and just life stuff in general, but I'm back. And I'm so excited to introduce you to a special guest for this episode. So today we are joined by the amazing Tiana. Please introduce yourself for the listeners

Tiana

Cool. Thanks. Hi, I'm Tiana. I'm currently the vice president communities of the students union at Queen Mary but I graduated in Spanish and film studies last year (2020) and I went to Argentina for my year abroad.

Sagal

So the first question is why did you choose to go to Argentina? It's like a really random destination

Tiana

Not gonna lie, it wasn't my first choice. I initially wanted to go to Chile and my original plan was to like to teach English there. That was like my original plan for the application and then someone that I had volunteered with like a couple of years before just like emailed me about this opportunity to volunteer in Argentina full-time and I was like, oh my gosh. Actually that's a lie when I first came and I was like, nah, I'm cool. I've got my plan. And then like a month later I was thinking about it like, you know what, actually, that could be really cool. Um, so yeah, I kind of actually did that application to work with this organisation in Buenos Aires. So I didn't really choose it on purpose, but the opportunity just came and I was like, yeah, might as well give that a go and I think it was good, cause I didn't get into the Chile thing anyways. So it all worked out.

Sagal

And what were you doing there?

Tiana

So I was volunteering for an organization called ‘CREAS’ if I put on my Spanish accent. So I think the English name translation is to the Regional Centre for advice and services. And they basically offer support in various forms to different charities and organisations across Latin America. So whether that's financial support or advice and they had this new project called Peace Entrepreneurs. So it is for young people 18 to 30 to develop skills and do projects in the local community so I was helping to support that project.

So, yeah, I haven’t spoken about this in a while so this is exciting.

Sagal That's amazing. That sounds so sick. And that was for the whole year, right?

Tiana Yeah. So actually I was in Argentina for nine months rather than a whole year because I had issues with my visa when I initially [left], so I was meant to go September to August, but the visa took so long. So I didn’t go til about the end of November so yeah, it was for the whole time, but ended up being nine months.

Sagal

And so overall, how would you describe your time there?

Tiana

I would describe it as … It was good. It was a time of growth. I think I always tend to look back on it with rose-tinted glasses cause I am always like it was amazing. I really loved Buenos Aires, it was so cool. But also like, it was hard. It was very difficult moving abroad and not knowing anyone. So yeah, overall it was good. It's definitely a time of growth for myself. Just in terms of like - it sounds so cheesy - like figuring out who I am, but also like, you know a whole culture, it's such a big change and I've not done anything like that before.

So it was great but it's definitely really, really challenging at the same time. But it's true - I kind of remember all the good parts and then when I really think about them all, I was stressed for a lot of it.

Sagal

Did you know anyone else who was doing something similar and like specifically in Latin America?

Tiana

Yeah, no, I was really on my own with this cause the way it worked was I was volunteering through the church (the Methodist church). So I think most people either do like studying in a uni or they do what I was going to eventually do with teaching English. So yeah. I didn't know anyone else in Argentina. I didn't know anyone else doing a similar thing so that was a bit daunting. I think there were a few people in Columbia and around, but I think most people in my year tended to go to Spain rather than Latin America.

Sagal

Were you scared to go to Latin America because I mean I wanted to go but then my Mum was like “no”, cos the stereotypes and images that people have in their head are like drug cartels and danger and whatnot.

Tiana

Honestly, I wasn't scared. For me, I didn't want to go to Spain, no shade to Spain, but because I had been before, like I'd been on holiday once or twice to Spain, I was like, you know, I want to try something completely different. So, yeah, I wasn't really [scared] also, I don’t know if it's like naivety or like I was assuming that nothing was going to happen to me. I'm like, I'm sure I'll be fine. But I did do my research, like before I went, especially like at first, when I started looking into Chile like figuring out okay which countries were most likely to be maybe more safe or things like that. Um, but yeah, for me, I was like, you know what, I want to just try something really different.

Sagal

For sure. Did you experience any culture shocks? Cause I'm guessing the culture was so different.

Tiana

Yeah. Well, I mean, definitely. I think with Argentina or at least with Buenos Aires specifically, cause I think the capital's quite different to the rest of the country. But before I went, people had told me that it's one of the most European-ish countries in Latin America. It kind of has this stereotype which I think in some ways was accurate. So in some ways it was similar [to what I know] but obviously it was a whole new country so there was that culture shock element. And I think it's just a whole different vibe to London. People are much more open and friendly, just in terms of like greeting, they always do the kiss on the cheek with everyone you meet. And I'm like, I'm not used to touching people like that. This was Pre-Covid so I don’t know how they’re coping now but it’s just like little things like that. But also in terms of language wise, I feel like all my Spanish teachers have been from Spain except one so on that level, they had all these new words and new accents and I was like ‘I don’t know what you guys are saying’. Like you think you're prepared and then you turn up and I'm like, Nope. Yeah, that was quite difficult … like you got there in the end. But yeah, at first it was a bit overwhelming for sure.

Sagal

Because they pronounce their two L's like a ‘J’ sound right?

Tiana

Yeah! They do like a ‘sh’ sound. For example, “me shamo”. At first it was like “this is terrible” but now that's like how I speak now if I speak Spanish.

Sagal

That’s so sick! So you picked up the accent?

Tiana

Yeah, I mean, it's probably not that good, but yeah, I definitely picked it up. I think it's just because you're trying to fit in. So you just adapt to how people around you are speaking and like, they have slightly different words to Spain for some things. So you just kind of, yeah, I had to adapt.

Sagal

Were there any moments when you said the wrong words, for example, or said something that had a completely different meaning?

Tiana

Yeah. I think with the “ll” sound, I remember one time going into like the butchers and asking for some chicken and I'm like “pollo” and he just didn't understand me until I was like “posho”. I was like, oh my gosh, I have to actually do it. It's just like little things [laugher] like stress.

Sagal

And so you spoke a bit about having to adapt. How long did that take, or how did you find that process of adapting and kind of adjusting to everything being so different?

Tiana

I think it kind of depends on which side of it. I think maybe a few months to kind of get into the rhythm of like just the whole new area, going to work, etc. Handling the money took me a while because it's such a different currency. But actually, I think, when you're thrown into the deep end, you kind of just have to, so I think that bit wasn't [too bad]. I didn't know about a time frame specifically. You just kind of get into the swing of things. I think the weirder thing was maybe the social side, cause I didn't really have a social life for a lot of it at first but yeah, you just kind of have to get used to it. And like, in some ways it is like London because it's Buenos Aires, it's a city … they've got their own underground. So even though it's all really different it’s actually really similar vibes.

Sagal

So did you, um, in terms of making friends, how did that go? Because you were volunteering, right. So I'm guessing you didn't really have the student spaces and you weren't really around exchange students like that. How was that process like?

Tiana

That was definitely the hardest part for me. Like not gonna lie, I didn't have friends for [some time] like, cause you're right, in the organisation I was volunteering for most of the people in their forties. So like, they were really nice, but they weren’t friends and then I didn't have the student spaces. So how did I make friends? What a great question. At first I just didn't. I was just kind of waiting for it to happen. And then I was like, well this isn’t going to happen unless I make it happen. So like I remember [using] Bumble the dating app. They have a friend's version, so I just did the friend version. So like literally went on and was like, “do you want to be my friend?”. So, I had to really seek it out.

I also go to Church. So I went to a few Churches to try and find ones that have groups of younger people that I could meet with. So that was good in the end, I found like a church community [to be with]. But also what was difficult as well was that I was living with a woman, like she was my landlord but I lived with her and she was nice too but it was like, kind of, not really comfortable cause I was in her house.

So after a few months I moved into a house full of international students. And that was much nicer because yeah, because I didn't have that student base around me and it was cool cos there were people from France, from Finland, from Italy, etc. But like, it was really nice having that mix. But yeah, it was definitely super, super hard at first. Cause I was like, literally, I don't know anyone. I didn't know how to find them.

Sagal

I'm still laughing at how you went on Bubble to find friends.

Tiana

Honestly! [Laughter]. But I have nothing, like literally I was, yeah, it was my last [resort] but it was actually good you know! I met this girl. She's from America and we’re still friends now - like two years later. So it worked out, you know, but it was weird! Like I'm going on a dating app but like, just to like hang out

Sagal

For me, cos I was studying abroad, it was a little bit easier because you're with students and especially because a lot of them are exchange students from the UK or the US so like you're constantly speaking in English and like you feel comfortable. But then the negative side of that is that you're speaking way too much English! And I mean, at least with the landlady and the people you were with you were able to practice Spanish right?

Tiana

Well, yeah, I definitely did especially at work, I think, you know, in my new house with the students, we spoke English anyway. Sometimes we spoke Spanish, but it's so easy to just fall back into [speaking] English

Sagal

For real. And I mean, in general, when you first got there to when you left, did you feel like your Spanish improved?

Tiana

You know, I think it did. So I think it really improved in the first few months or like the first half of me being there because like it was so different, but then I think honestly, it kind of just got a bit stagnant. Cause I think by that point I was, like I said, I was still speaking English to the people that I live with. So like it definitely improved and I think what also improved is like confidence and fluidity, cause you just kind of get used to that. But I think after [a while] I just got comfortable, I didn't push myself as much as I could have done actually to take it off to the next level, but it definitely improved from before I went.

Sagal

That’s really good because when I was going for me, it was weird cause I went from Geneva, which is French right then to Madrid which is obviously Spanish. I had gotten so used to hearing French all around me so when I got to Madrid, I was like, what's going on? Like it was so weird to adjust to everything again. And like, I'm not going to lie, it was so bad but like when I first got there I was googling how to say such basic words, like “then” or literally things that I should have known, but my Spanish wasn’t great when I got there. But because I was like [...] the university I was going to didn’t have any English classes and they didn't offer any grammar, like Spanish learning classes. So I was in classes with actual students. So, I was doing history of musica or international relations with people that are like [mimics fast spanish speaking] around me.

Tiana

It sounds really stressful

Sagal

Yeah it was, I’m not gonna lie. Maybe the first [...] basically the whole time I was there (because I had to come back early) it was hard. Those classes were stressful. I would go in and I’d be like, “please don’t ask me a question today”.

Tiana

Yeah. Also mad respect for people who do two languages that unique, because like for me, one is bad enough but having to do French as well. That's impressive.

Sagal

Yeah, it is fun not gonna lie. The good thing with your course is that you get to do something completely different and like obviously you were working right, but did you feel inspired in terms of like filmmaking or film related stuff?

Tiana

A little. So course wise, I didn't do any film part of my film degree while I was abroad. It was just kind of like a pause. Um, but I definitely, like when I came back, I did like modules in like, um, like what do I do? Like Cuban cinema and stuff like that. So it was just interesting. And also just on a more basic level, like going to the cinema in Argentina and having that experience, it was really really cool. And like, I don't know if I was more into documentaries, I feel it'd be super cool to go there. It’s just really pretty and the aesthetic is so different from here. It's really great.

Sagal

And talking about that film module, because I took, I think it was … ugh I can’t remember what it was called cos my memory is so bad … but I took a module on film [studies] and one of the films we studied was a film based on Argentina. I don't know if you studied it as well?

It's called ... well all I know is that the director is called Maria Luisa Bamberg or something along those lines. I don’t know if it’s ringing any bells?

***Correction whilst editing*

So quick little correction as I’m editing this episode. I realized number one, I had misquoted the film and also I didn't really explain properly what it was about. So the film I was actually talking about is called “La Historia Oficial” or official history or official story by Louis Puenzo, and it is set in 1983 during the last year of the country's military dictatorship, which was horrible.

And, you know, there were thousands of people that were killed and tortured and a lot of that was state sponsored. And especially … It was particularly those who were accused to be politically left-leaning as well as a lot of innocent people. And what was especially horrible was that some of the women who were kidnapped to be tortured, we're pregnant. And so their children were taken, and I think like there's studies, not studies, but like statistics say maybe there were more than 500 of these children and they were basically [...] the children were taken to middle-class and military families. And ever since then a group called the mothers and grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo which is like a really, you know, historical square in Buenos Aires … these mothers and grandmothers of these disappeared people march the streets, demanding to locate and reunite with their loved ones who had disappeared during that military dictatorship.

And so, the reason why I brought that up is because, you know, Tiana went to Buenos Aires in Argentina so this is something she may have seen. And in terms of what the film is about - the film basically follows this middle class history teacher who lives a very comfortable life with her husband, who has ties with the military regime and she has an adopted child, but she begins to question the identity of her child after she sees one of these marches.

So, just to clarify and to give a bit of context about the film and the historical event or the, this historical fact, or I guess moment that happens and still happens in Buenos Aires. Okay, cool. Intermission over, let's get back to the episode.

***

Did you see that when you were there?

Tiana

Yeah, I did. There was one day, I was just like in town and then we just came across this ... I dunno … like a procession of all the mothers with their like white headscarves and someone was like on a platform, doing a speech. Yeah … of the, of the disappeared. Yeah. Um, really interesting. Also really horrible. But yeah, it was really, really interesting to kind of see them and I don’t know. I think when I had heard about it, in my head it was a really long time ago, but it's not because that's still around, you know.

Sagal

They still haven't gotten the kids back. They still don’t have any information.

Tiana

Yeah...

Sagal

That's so cool that, I mean, obviously it is a sad history and a sad reality, but it's also, it's cool for you a little bit that you got to see this in real life.

Tiana

Yeah, definitely a privilege to see and they have, like … I don't want to call it an exhibition ... but like there’s things up on the walls of all the different people that are missing, so you can kind of learn a bit about them. So that was good to learn about.

Sagal

That's so sick because this reminds me [of something]. Cause when I was in ...Okay this is such a side note ... but when I was in sixth form, in year 13 we had like this one week work experience thing that we could go to in France. And the teacher was like, oh, you need to go, blah, blah, blah. So eventually I went and it was during December. But in class previously, we had been studying the film “La Haine” - I don't know if you’ve watched it - the French one.

Tiana

No, I haven’t.

Sagal

Okay I recommend it, it’s a really good film. In the film you see, like, basically riot police. And so I'd never [seen that]. Obviously in the UK riot police look a bit different and in France in general, they have guns and all that kind of stuff, right. And so as we were studying the film [la haine] he was describing it. And when I went to France, I went to this city in the north called Rouen. And when I was there, literally there were protests and like manifestations that were going on against [the murder of] a boy who had been brutalized by the police. And so I literally ... I was going to meet up with like the rest of the group. And I walked through the protest. I mean, people there were [throwing] like, what's it called ... molotov cocktails and there was tear gas and all that kind of stuff. So it's really, it's interesting when we learn something and then when you see it.

Tiana

Yeah, that's definitely something, you know in Buenos Aires, they do love to protest, like it was so often you would see marches happening on like the main street which was super near to my office where I worked. So we’d just like see all these people outside, and I went to a few. There was some about women's rights, and like abortion and there was just always [something going on]. There was also one about weed. It was always like ... I feel like the people are very passionate. So yeah, it was just kind of interesting to see the social issues from that point of view.

Sagal

Honestly I wish I could have gone, but then at the same time, hopefully in the future, I would love to go to visit Argentina. Did you get the opportunity to visit other cities or other countries?

Tiana

Yeah, I did. I was, yeah. I was really lucky. I was able to go to a few places. With work, I was able to go to Columbia and Peru to kind of see, cause they had programmes in Cartagena in Columbia and also in Bogota and then in Cuzco in Peru and then I also got to go to Machu Picchu because it was close by, and I was like, “yeah, I wanna do that!”

So that was really [great]. I think that's what I liked as well like that I got that opportunity. Latin America is so big. Like there's so much going on and every place was so different. Uh, and I also did get to go Chile. [Laugher] Fun fact! I went for a weekend with friends that I met on Bumble! See, it was good because I also think that as well for traveling, like, after traveling to Argentina by myself I was like, you know what, I don’t want to do this again. So I need friends to travel with, but yeah, it was, it was really cool to kind of, yeah. Every place is so different. Um, every place was good vibes.

Sagal

Was it easy to travel? Because I mean, again, this could just be like stereotypes but it seems like it could be dangerous at times to travel between countries in Latin America.

Tiana

For me it was fine. I got the plane every time I think. I'm trying to remember. But yeah, for me it was pretty straightforward, especially with the … when I was traveling for work, like it was easy because there'd be someone to meet me when I got there and to show me around. So I was kind of lucky to have that support. Whereas I think it might be different if you were just traveling, like traveling around, but yeah, it was, it was fine. Like they would always still like, warn you about like, okay, this, this area is maybe not safe or don't have your phone out in the street in case someone takes it. But I had a really good experience, so yeah, it was fine for me.

Sagal

And so you said before, that you didn't really have any fears, but did your parents have any fears and did they voice them to you?

Tiana

I think my parents had the kind of generic fears that any parent would have if their kids like going abroad, but I think they were, I don't know, my parents are very supportive luckily. So they were kind of like, if that's what you want to do, go ahead. I think just the, yeah, just the general “be safe”, “be okay”. I was lucky as they [my family] actually came to visit me about halfway through, which is good for them because they also got a holiday out of it. But that was nice and like, yeah, just to see them. And, oh my gosh, my mom brought me so many hair products cause I couldn't get any. So yeah, it was ... they were very supportive and obviously, you know you got FaceTime and stuff to keep in touch.

Sagal

Did you ever get homesick?

Tiana

Yeah, definitely. I think yeah. I mean, like I said about like, kind of not having friends that was like, it was really difficult, you know. Being lonely, but then also not wanting to tell your parents “I’m so sad” [laughter]. So yeah. And also like ’FOMO’, I got so much FOMO from like seeing my friends hanging out on Instagram because they were still in London doing fun things and I'm sat in my room, like, ughh. But yeah, I mean, it's fine now. And obviously I wouldn't trade my experience just to go to a party.

Sagal

What’s mad is that they’re probably looking at you and having FOMO (fear of missing out)!

Tiana

Yeah that's true.

Sagal

Well, I mean, I feel the same thing for me as well. Like I would feel like I'm missing out on things going on at home and with friends as well and likewise. But I realised there’s really not that much going on at home and also like you said, FaceTime and all that kind of stuff.

I wanted to ask you about your experiences with discrimination if you had any because like you said, the perception of Buenos Aires is that is really white and really European and like they really seem Italian. I was watching this documentary ages ago about like the whole “whitening” process that happened where it went from, like having at least I don't have the statistics, but like what, at least 50%, or like a large black population to a hundred … you know a couple hundred years later having less than 1%.

Tiana

Yeah, you know how you have to do a project for when you’re abroad, I did my project on that. Yeah. Because when I was first going, I was Googling ‘Black people in Argentina’ to kind of see how it'd be, because you’re right, like it is a very mostly white area. Yeah. I mean, I didn't … I found it really interesting, kind of just the concept of race there because It seems quite different culturally, then we have it here.

I didn't face like discrimination necessarily, but it's ... well they're very … you know how like in Spanish, if you're black like they’ll call you it. Like in England, you wouldn't like, be like, “Oi, hey black girl!” Well, maybe you would when you shouldn’t [laughter]. Whereas it's more normal to be like - what’s the word - “morocha”. So like, I don't know, a guy would like call out to me, but it's not racist. I mean, it's still, I guess kind of maybe harassment but like, I don't know. Or like people always just assume that you're from Brazil. I feel because there's a lot of - even though it's not very racially diverse - Buenos Aires has a lot of different people from across Latin America in it. So yeah they’d just assume you’re from Brazil because you're black and like one time, I was in a coffee shop and the waitress wrote on my receipt “thank you”, I think I tipped her or I don’t know It was just like a nice message, but she wrote it in Portuguese and I’m like I don't speak Portuguese. But she just assumed that I was from Brazil. And so yeah, it was kind - she tried but she missed.

Yeah, that's kind of the main thing. And like just generic things with people being so amazed by my hair or like, just stuff like that. Like I think I had a wig at first and changed it and they were like “oh my God, did you cut your hair. Wow. How'd you get your hair like that? And I’m like it's not that deep. But at the same time, like, there's barely any black people. So I guess it's genuinely like, they just don't know.

Sagal

And in the group that you were working with or for, did they have any international people or any black people within the team?

Tiana

There was actually one woman who was, I think she's mixed race. So she kind of would like hit me up with like the ‘black people stuff’ around, which was cool. But everyone else they were kind of international. One guy was from Uruguay, so kind of the neighbouring country. One person was from Spain so like still kind of, you know, Spanish speaking. But it was quite a small organisation too and also you have the partnering thing with Columbia, Peru, so yeah.

Sagal

Okay for me, I have this thing with stares. I don't know if you have the, like, did you feel like you got people staring at you all the time? And did you have the issue of that as well?

Tiana

Yeah, I think, yeah, you're just very aware that you're the only black person in the area. And like, especially sometimes with children, I guess, because they genuinely might not have ever seen a black person before. But also I am at the same time, a little bit oblivious so kind of a mixture. Sometimes I’m like “Oh my gosh” and sometimes I'm just minding my own business and I don’t notice.

Sagal

Cool. So changing topics slightly, what was your favorite thing about Argentina?

Tiana

Ooh, Ooh. What was my favorite thing? So many things. Oh, wow. Why is this so difficult. I really like - this is such a vague answer - so I was going to just say the vibe. I know it’s not very satisfying, but just genuinely like the ... kind of the way the culture and the people are. It's very laid back, very chill, which suits me a lot. Even like the working culture. Like I could show up at any time, pretty much, as long as I did however many hours. Yeah it’s pretty laid back and people are generally friendly. So yeah. I don't know if that’s a cop-out answer but yeah, the vibe and the people and it's just, yeah, good vibes.

Sagal

It seems like that from the outside, Latin America in general, it seems like people there are just a lot more open and friendly than here in the UK. Especially the music and dancing, and that kind of stuff. Did you learn how to do ... what’s their dance … the tango?

Tiana

I mean I wouldn't say I learnt. But I went to some classes and they have this - I forget what it’s called - but where they like, in like public spaces ... It's not even a class. It's just people show up and these old men are kind of asking you to dance but it's chill. And then they just teach you how to do the tango. And that was a little fun. And yeah, the music there's like tango and this other one [called] bachata which is quite popular

Sagal

When I went abroad, I realised that there are some things I need, for example, like sports or that I need to … I don't know, like I need to be around nature or specific things like revising in a cafe. Did you kind of create a list of places or like actively seek out things that you need that are important for your mental health or just for you personally?

Tiana

Yeah, I think one of the main things I realised I needed was people. Because I think I've always kind of seen myself as kind of an introvert. But I think I'm actually not as much of an introvert as I thought. Like I did really need to kind of be around people. So yeah, I would always do my work in the kind of coffee shops around so often that they would recognise me.

And I think just, yeah, kind of going out and being around things and around people was, yeah. I think people probably would have felt it as well in the pandemic, but just like being by yourself for so long is actually just not fun. Maybe even if you are an introvert, after a while the novelty wears off.

I think also just trying new things, I had to do a lot and like, you know, whether it's new food or just going to new places or just doing this random thing. Uh, like I went to, um, it's like a language exchange event. So you go in and they give you a sticker based on what languages you speak and then you just speak to random people who have the same stickers as you. I feel like if I was in London, I would never do that here. But like there’s actually so much going on that you can just do it - like to kind of take more risks and do stuff.

Sagal

A hundred percent. I definitely think that's one thing that's really a massive plus about the Year Abroad is that you really come out of your comfort zone and you discover new hobbies and things that you actually enjoy. When I was in Madrid, there was a pottery shop that I went to one time - it was so calming. It was so nice. Actually, when I came back, I Googled it and I found that there's one like literally 10 minutes away from me, but I've never been because it was a thing of like... I had just never thought of it, but because I was in Spain it was like “Oh, let me try out new things!” And it was so nice. It was a big shop. There was really calming music playing in the background. And they had like plates and saucers and cups and stuff, and they had all the paints there and everything, and you would just … it was maybe like 10 euros or something … you’d sit down and paint, and then they would glaze and whatnot and you’d come back like a couple of days later to pick it up.

Tiana

That’s so cute!

Sagal

Yeah, it was so nice. So like those kinds of things that [make your time there]. And now I’m like I really like pottery! I'm gonna … I wanna learn more, etc. So yeah, definitely …. like you definitely get to explore yourself a bit more. As corny as it sounds and as cliché as it sounds you “understand yourself better” [puts on an american accent]

Tiana

But it’s true!

Sagal

Literally! Okay so going on from this point. I mean, for me, I felt like I had the most personal growth during my Year Abroad. Do you feel the same way with your time abroad?

Tiana

Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah. I mean, it's so cliche, but it's true. Because you're in such a whole new, different environment and circumstance, you are just kind of forced to grow and also to kind of learn about yourself and learn what you like, what you dislike, what you need. For example, for me not realizing how much I actually did value people [laughter]. It sounds like I hated people. I didn’t but like, you know what you can handle as well. I mean, no one would kind of want to be completely alone in a whole new environment, but because you kind of have to do it for your degree, it's like, oh, you know, actually I can, I can handle it, like I survived! It's a whole new type of independence as well. Like doing everything for yourself. So yeah, I would agree with you.

Sagal

It really pushes you to grow and like, even ... so for me, when I got back after all that growth and stuff and realising things I do like, things I don't like … when I came back, it was like, “oh damn, my siblings are a bit more messy than me, you know, they have their own schedules” and it was weird like having to adjust to everyone again. I don't know if you have siblings?

Tiana

Yeah, I’ve got a brother! I think definitely coming back. Yeah, you get so used to it. And then you're like, oh, hold on. Even though this is like where you're from, but it's like, you have to readjust again and things that you … maybe to the culture, but also just the little things that you’re used to having, like always used to get these little sweets from this coffee cup. And I was like, you know I really crave one, but I just can’t, it’s just not an option here. Yeah that’s a silly example but you know what I mean!

Sagal

Yeah, even for me, it's like, food-wise. Because when I was there, I'm not gonna lie … because I'm lactose and gluten intolerant.

Tiana Ouch!

Sagal

Yeah I know, it’s peak. When I was abroad, I was proper on it, like I was eating so good because also I’m cooking my own meals right. So I know exactly what's going into my food and everything and whatnot. And so my skin, my health, everything, my gut was the best it’s ever been. When I came back, it was like, “oh yeah, mums making food I might as well just eat her food”. But it’s like, Somali food has a lot of spices, a lot of like … she likes making these somali pancakes that I love. I used to love eating it but I can't really eat it because it's got wheat in it. Right. So, um, it's just that when you're by yourself, you're really like, you're more aware, you have more control over everything. And so the control aspect for me was really important - like I know exactly [what I’m eating] and because I've got anxiety it feels also like I'm in control - that nothing [can affect me]. There were fewer things that were able to kind of like disrupt my peace.

Okay. So speaking of mental health, was mental health something you were concerned about before you were leaving? I mean, you mentioned loneliness and I think that's something a lot of us (including myself) experienced. Were there things that you did to kind of help maintain good mental health?

Tiana

Yeah. I think loneliness was the biggest one for me and that kind of just affected me by just being sad a lot. I think, yeah, just to kind of deal with it … It's hard. You just have to actually try because I think what I tend to do is just to wallow and like, I'm sad so you know what, I'm just going to lock myself in my room and just like, be sad on my own and not do anything, but actually like, obviously that's not the solution.

So like, even if it's like, you know, calling friends from back home and catching up or even just walking around in nature, like there's … Is it a river? Oh my gosh … yeah, the river in town. Like it's really beautiful around there and just kind of doing that and kind of, you know, just like seeing life. That kind of stuff just helps or well it can help ... It depends. One time [laughter] ... one time I was like (this is at the beginning) I went out to the park and it was a lovely day but everyone there was like with someone like with a friend, with family. And that really pissed me off because I was like, oh my gosh, why do all these people get to have friends and have a fun time when I'm by myself.

So on that side of things, maybe not [laughter] but then like, you know, you still, you do meet people and like you make the effort and yeah kind of just remind yourself of the good side of it. And the fact that like, it's not forever because even when it's hard, like, yeah, it maybe sucks for a moment, but actually I’ll be back in the summer and it’ll be chill so I might as well make the most of the time here.

Sagal

Yeah. That thing of reminding myself it’s not forever - I used to do that all the time. Because I’m an introvert as well and I find it [pauses] …. no, I don't find it … uh I kind of find it sometimes hard to like meet new people [which is hard and can be scary] in general, right. And so I would just tell myself especially because I hate embarrassing myself and you know them ones where you think about what you said after and you’re like arghhh. I would just tell myself you know what it doesn't matter if I embarrass myself because I'm never going to see these people again. Sixth months, whatever, and afterwards they’re not seeing me. So it's okay. Whatever impression they have of me, that's going to stay there and that won't come back to London. So I'd literally use that all the time. And especially like we were saying, in terms of like, it's so easy to be stuck in your room and to just like, just stay in your bed, watching Netflix even though you're abroad.

Tiana

Oh my gosh, I watched so much netflix! Especially at the start.

Sagal

Yeah same as well. But it's like, I mean, the important thing is to like force yourself to leave because it's those times when you leave the house and you’re like, “you know what I’m actually really glad I left”. Okay, cool. So another question I had as you were speaking, was would you ever go back to Argentina?

Tiana

Yeah, I think I’d really like to, but I don’t think I would like to do it in the same way. I think like, if I had a friend who was going to move there with me [then] a hundred percent. Because I really love the city and the vibes, like I said before. But I think it was really difficult. Like I really do need my support system around me. So I think I would be nervous about doing the exact same thing when I’m working and no-one's my age. Although that being said, I think if I did do it again, now I at least know what to do, what not to do. So I probably would handle it a lot better. Yeah, I would like to go back at some point. But I also … like I was in Columbia for maybe five days but when I was in Bogota, I was like, you know what this place is also such good vibes. Like, it just felt really nice. And I was like, you know, I could actually see myself living here, maybe not, not like forever, not like moving there long term but maybe doing a similar thing, like a year or two, because yeah, it's just really nice to experience other places.

Sagal

It looks so vibrant, and Bogota especially … the weather! The good thing about Latin America is that the weather is always so beautiful.

Tiana

Yeah. Although what was really weird … so Latin America is in the southern hemisphere so seasons are reversed. So it was great. It was super super hot in the summer, which was like January but I don't know what it is about the city, but like when it was cold, it was really, really cold, but it wasn't like, it was only like 10 degrees, which to me, is like chill. So when I was going, I was like, oh, that's so basic. But I don't know. I don't really understand the geography and weather systems, but something about maybe the humidity, I don't know, it just felt colder than it was. So that was like a ... I was like, hold up, I thought this was meant to be chill, but yeah. But again, now I'm prepared, I know I can do it.

Sagal

And if you were to think back to when you first were deciding to go abroad, would you have … like now with all the knowledge that you have now … would you have taken the opportunity to study or would you have chosen to work again?

Tiana

That is a good question. Hmm. As in, I don’t think I would change what I did do and I think when I was planning my year abroad, I never wanted to study because I was like, I already studied. I didn't want to do that again, I wanted a break from studying and stress and everything else. However, I do think it's such a nice … well I imagine since I didn't do it … but it would be such a nice thing to have that kind of student community around. And also just to practice learning [another language] and I mean it sounds so hard [from what you said] like sitting in class and everyone is speaking really fast, but, um, yeah, I think that sounds hard. The more I think about it, the more I’m like yeah no thanks, that seems really hard.

Sagal

Yeah, but even though it was hard, the amount of progress I made in like a short amount of time was really good. I don’t know… honestly I feel like in general, just being in a country which speaks the language you want to learn, it just helps anyways. Just constantly hearing the language all around you, you're learning like small words that you would never [normally know]. There's certain words and phrases that you wouldn't learn in a university context, because it's like, like I can speak about big topics, but it's a question of can I do small conversation.

Tiana

Yeah exactly! I remember I was in this … Um, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this [pauses]. It’s fine. I was in a university meeting the other day and they were talking about obviously because of the pandemic, students who are doing a year abroad is tricky, blah, blah, blah. And they were talking about doing it remotely from home. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, what is the point of doing a year abroad from your home? Like, even if you're studying like online classes in Paris, like such a big part of the Year Abroad is actually going abroad, experiencing the day-to-day like you learn so much just from day-to-day interaction. So you just, you just can't do it. You just can't do it. It's just such a … it just makes zero sense. Yeah, I hope they don't make that suggestion [happen] because that’s the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard.

Sagal

Literally, the whole point of it is to be in another country.

Tiana

Yeah, exactly.

Sagal

Because when corona came and when I was in Madrid and I came back … not gonna lie when I came back, the language learning stopped because I'm like yeah I’m in classes and stuff [but it’s not the same]. Well It didn't stop, but it just reduced a lot because I was living with my landlady as well and even though she was nice and stuff, I told myself that, yeah, I'm going to come home. And all the stuff I was learning, like small household phrases and stuff that she was teaching me, for example bedsheets. I didn’t know how to say that. But one time she said “do you want me to wash your bed sheets?'' And I was like, oh, that's what it’s called. But it was like those small things … you miss out on that. And that's like, that's those important stuff.

Tiana

Yeah, definitely. Cause that's like, it's all about expanding your vocabulary like you said like, sure, you can talk about these specific topics in the curriculum, but like actually can you actually survive in another country? Like that's the main, main thing surely about learning the language, actually learning it.

Sagal

What tips or like, what advice would you give to someone who was in your position before you left about your experience and about going to Argentina in general?

Tiana

I would say to take every opportunity and try as many new things as possible because yeah, I mean, I guess a year feels like a long time, but it's actually not at all. And I think I spent a bit of time just being a bit scared of doing things and like, “oh, it's awkward” or, or “I don't know anyone”, but just do it anyway.

Yeah, take every opportunity you can. And like, do things by yourself. I think as well in terms of like making friends - a few friends that I made, they just started talking to me when I sat on a bench and then they were cool and we hung out a few times, but like I could have also spoken to them, but you know what I mean? Like just take risks and like just, yeah, I guess trying to get as much out of it, which is easier said than done. Like it is intimidating. But yeah, you're only there for you. And also like you were saying, if you do embarrass yourself who cares because you’ll never see them again. So it was like a win-win. Yeah, I think that's the biggest piece of advice I would give.

And also at the same time, like go easy on yourself because like, it is really scary and it can be a bit overwhelming, so it's fine to have a little cry. But then don't just cry, then go out and do things that make you feel better.

Sagal

A hundred percent. And for a lot of people, it's like the first time they've been away from family for a long time. So it can be so so scary, having to have all that responsibility and not having an immediate person you can go to directly in like five, 10 minutes can be scary. But like, I think, I mean, at the end of my experience, I was proud. Like well done to myself for doing all of that and like the good and the bad and all the different parts and like, you know, in general it was an amazing experience. And I would think I would have … if someone told me, you have the option … go on the year abroad … don’t go on the year abroad - one billion percent, I would have gone on the year abroad. I think that experience is so important.

Tiana

Yeah. And you’ll probably never get an experience like that again. It's such a unique time, even if you do move abroad for work, it's just not the same to have that kind of new step, that freedom especially at this stage in your life when you're growing and ... we keep coming back to this, but yeah discovering things.Yeah, definitely. If you have the opportunity, you should definitely take it.

Sagal

Honestly, it sounds amazing. And I'm glad you had a good experience there.

Tiana

Yeah, definitely the good ends up outweighing the bad. It's definitely worth it.

Sagal

100 percent. Even with me, like, even if there were a couple of things that happened … The good is definitely what I'm remembering the most.

It was really nice having you here and discussing this with you, because I think it's such a unique experience. You're the first person I’ve met that’s went to Argentina.

Tiana Oh! I’m honored!

Sagal

So it's a really unique experience and I'm glad that you could come and join us. And it was so interesting. So thank you for joining me.

Tiana

Yeah. Thanks for having me! This is my first podcast so I hope it went okay! Yeah it was really fun to talk to you.

Sagal

Thank you again for listening to another episode of memnoire and thank you again to Tiana for taking the time out to have this conversation and discuss her time in Argentina. I hope it was beneficial. I hope it was interesting. I hope you've learned something. See you next episode. Bye.